In this episode of the Invisible Woman podcast, we speak with three women from Sisterworks, a not-for-profit that works with migrant, refugee, and asylum-seeker women to help them become economically empowered. This is part 2 of our conversation with Shivani Bibhuti, Pamela Mujica, and Belen Maure from Sisterworks.
You can find out more about Sisterworks at https://sisterworks.org.au/
The Invisible Woman project, funded by our social enterprise's impact program, promotes awareness and actions for women and gender-diverse people, to age with dignity, security, and safety. Find out more on justgoldwomen.net or on our socials @justgoldwomen.
Hosted by Voula Stamatakis
Edited and produced by Carley Bishop
This is a Just Gold podcast.
[00:00:00] Carley Bishop: This is a just gold podcast.
[00:00:02]
[00:00:02] Carley Bishop: Captured on the lands of the peoples of the east Eastern Kulin nation. We pay our respects to their elders past, present and emerging.
[00:00:25] In this episode of the Invisible Woman podcast, we speak with women from Melbourne social enterprise Sisterworks. This episode will be broken into two parts. This is part two.
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[00:00:39] Voula Stamatakis: The topic we are discussing today is how women become invisible after they go 50 years old. This is a global phenomenon and we have seen that this is happening here in Australia as well. Do you think as we age that we become invisible, especially the migrant women? Pamela?
[00:00:58] Pamela Mujica: Yes, I believe.
[00:01:00] I was, invisible even before that, I would say because even to go to an interview, you don't know how to go, how to prepare. Such a difference to how it was, the way of how to interview here and then in Chile. To tell you the truth, even in Chile, after 40, you just become invisible. Maybe in Australia it's a little bit more delayed, but you feel that even the opportunity to get a job is less when you are actually 50, yes, definitely I believe in that.
[00:01:40] But also in my case, like personal, I sometimes even put barriers in me, thinking that, oh. Maybe I'm not getting a job because of my age, I have white hair, things like that, because of now my English, I have an accent those things that you actually also contribute and actually would be there.
[00:02:04] Voula Stamatakis: You, you think so? Although, maybe it's not, but you
[00:02:09] Pamela Mujica: think, yes. Of course, you think so yes. What do you think,
[00:02:12] Belen Maure: Belen? As I understand, some women really experience that but in my case, I really don't experience it. Yeah, because for me
[00:02:20] Voula Stamatakis: You're 71 and thriving.
[00:02:22] Belen Maure: Yeah, 50 and above, you've done your Responsibility to your family.
[00:02:27] You've sent your children to uni. They have their Careers they have their family and I have my own time so I Can use my? Freedom, to use my time, go into join, joining organizations, and sharing my skills. Yes. Yes, that's, I never really experienced,
[00:02:49] Voula Stamatakis: so what do you think could be the barriers, though, for women to be excluded? Yes. Can it be only that we don't? Talk perfect English or maybe we are left behind, digital skill set.
[00:03:03] Belen Maure: Oh, yes. I like that. Because this is another issue. Yes, because I have that all. Yeah? As a migrant, there are real barriers, one is the language barriers. Because English is not our first language.
[00:03:18] Yeah. And then we have this computer illiteracy. Yeah, when I come to Australia, I thought I will not use the computer, because I come here, see, I'm 63, yeah but, those are barriers, but I overcome it by, I enrolled in different kinds of education and training, I, because I wanted to go into Australian workforce, so I enrolled in Diploma and Diploma in Childhood and Care, and then when I finish my diploma, I'm already 65, so I go to another workshop, yeah, that would fit my my qualification, because as we go to Australia, our qualification in our country is not honoured, so we have to build up another qualification.
[00:04:05] Voula Stamatakis: And from what I see, you just stay connected, you finish one thing and you go to the other. Yes. You just don't stop. What do you think?
[00:04:13] Pamela Mujica: Yeah I will, apart from having my business, which it happens like I said before, after 40 I had to learn all those social media Instagram website. I have done that myself.
[00:04:29] I have done courses. It's really hard when you even ask your kids to help me Because they don't have the time, so I do it myself and I self taught myself, but now also can have the chance to even taught women. Because I'm not only the wine, the jewelry maker, but also work for Sister World.
[00:04:55] I'm in charge of the shop at the moment, which means that I help the sisters that are actually starting. My experience, it's taught women at the, now I help them, exactly, I help them now before of course, I was helped by SisterWorks, and now I actually help sisters. Little details, Instagram names, brand, or even help them, oh, we got a lot of artists.
[00:05:28] So my, one of my help is, and I'm, because I'm always on Instagram, I see an exhibition and I actually send the information to the artist. So if I see, oh, this is a great toy that you can develop it, I send the photo. So that's my job. And that's how I can actually contribute, of course, to the sisters. And help them to sell more.
[00:05:51] Yes, so
[00:05:52] Voula Stamatakis: you're becoming stronger within the organization. And the organization. This is important, of course. Yeah, so you can help others.
[00:05:58] Pamela Mujica: Yeah.
[00:05:59] Voula Stamatakis: So SisterWorks really helped you overcoming all the barriers and how, the way you were feeling. What would you recommend to the ladies that are listening to you that feel that they have barriers or they feel that they need help?
[00:06:14] What should they do?
[00:06:16] Pamela Mujica: What they should do? First of all, if you have a skills any skills, artist, or if you make beautiful things, then come to SisterWorks and talk to me or any of the actually sisters that can help you develop your business if you wanted to actually go and Because not everyone wants to be a business woman.
[00:06:41] Maybe you wanted to just do it for hobby. I do have sisters that they do it for
[00:06:46] hobby
[00:06:47] and they sell little here and there. Because of all the time, some of them are moms and they don't have much time to make many of the products. But they are happy to even sell one or two. They also have the opportunity to go to market.
[00:07:02] It's a very good way of talking to customers, which is of course, you develop more the English, the language. So I would say to the women is first don't think too much. Sometimes when you think and overthink, you don't do it. So that's what happened to me. I now learned that if I have these ideas, one, two, three, or maybe for a long long time, then I will do it.
[00:07:31] Networking is very important as well. I would say talk to other pairs and that will help you the women. Clear, to be clear on what you or...
[00:07:49] Or your husband, no, don't do it, it's too hard, no. If you have
[00:07:52] it in your heart, just do it.
[00:07:54] Voula Stamatakis: You have to believe in yourself.
[00:07:56] Shivani Bibhuti: Absolutely. That's true.
[00:07:58] Pamela Mujica: What do you think Belen?
[00:08:00] Belen Maure: The message for the women? I think Pam said that networking is really good because, I have a wide, really wide network now.
[00:08:12] And I also bring some some of the programs, some sister works to my, to the, my, my community in the west. And that's really a very good net, networking. And then I would say that. If there are new arrived migrants, they should not stay home, they should go to community centers.
[00:08:32] They will, they learn a lot of programs and that's the start. From that start, then you can expand your network, you can go anywhere you want to go. And I advise them, migrant women, i, as I said to my friend from Iran, said, no language, not anymore a barrier. You can be a teacher.
[00:08:54] So I bring her along with me and said, oh, I'll compile everything, and I, next time you'll be your, you'll be the teacher. I'll be your assistant. So no language anymore barrier. Just be confident. Be yourself. Australians are kind and generous to help you. Yeah. As long as you speak a little English and you can.
[00:09:14] Put it in the words or gestures, it's fine, being confident is very important. Being confident, you can go anywhere, rather than we just, yeah, stay in our comfort zone.
[00:09:25] Voula Stamatakis: Yeah, and just think about it. Sounds good. What, so you are about 40 years old, just imagine, and now you know what you should have known when you are 50. What would you advise these women who are not 50 yet, they're going to be maybe in 10, 10 years, what should they do to stay visible and not become invisible at any time?
[00:09:48] Pamela Mujica: Don't limit
[00:09:49] yourself. There is a lot of possibilities. And if you fail in the way in this journey, just stand up again and do it again. And maybe this time help, get help from other people that have more experience. Yeah, I would say that. Stay connected.
[00:10:16] Absolutely. For me,
[00:10:17] Belen Maure: in SisterWorks we have a lot of international Students that getting some interviews. So I, all, I'm very generous with my experience to them. I give them interviews. Yeah, that's for their uni. At the same time, I encourage them, No, don't, if you come to Australia, we're in a foreign water, we have to do everything, but don't be discouraged, everyone that comes to Australia, the first time that they come to Australia, they experience, So we are in the same wavelength. So why, yeah, why give up? Yeah, maybe encourage them. Yeah, give them, of course, our love that they should continue. Because they are, these students are really very young, from different countries.
[00:10:59] We have from really different countries. And interviews that they like to have. Okay, I give them all my experiences, and encourage them that, living in Australia is good. Yes, the first step is just a little bit hard, but if you come to know already Australian culture, and blend with the Australian community, it's
[00:11:21] Pamela Mujica: learning as well.
[00:11:22] Voula Stamatakis: Yes, keep learning, which is really important.
[00:11:26] Shivani Bibhuti: Really good points here, like how they are saying don't shy away from asking for help. That's what community does for each other, like you help each other in achieving, so you should not shy away from asking for help either.
[00:11:39] Voula Stamatakis: Because, especially in this country, there are so many ways you can be helped.
[00:11:44] You just have to ask for it.
[00:11:47] Pamela Mujica: We have a group of women that, like in my case for example, seniors. We call it seniors because we have labels. through the level 1, 2, 3, where at the moment we have a website and we sell in other places. The women that just started, of course, they see us like, oh, wow, an example, which are, it's very good, but only the hen, we can return the the hen again to, to those women that are just starting.
[00:12:16] It's a very good thing.
[00:12:20] Either by taking the course, which is the business classes. I did it myself as well, which you always learn new things, new way of communicating the social media because that changes a lot. But also you see the other women, how they start. Because that was actually the way I started, but I didn't see it because at the time, exactly.
[00:12:46] So we help each other, which is very good.
[00:12:49] Joy: So Sister Works. Our main mission is to help women with finding work and also to provide employment support.
[00:12:56] Shivani Bibhuti: It is a free space. They can talk what's there in their heart, they are people, they are listeners, and then they are also being capable of we are empowering them so they will be capable of making their own life later on.
[00:13:09] Sounds
[00:13:09] Pamela Mujica: really
[00:13:09] Voula Stamatakis: good and really supportive. So where are the offices of First Sister Works?
[00:13:14] Shivani Bibhuti: We have our offices in Abbotsford, Dandenong, and Bendigo currently. So we have three offices. Our main head office is in Abbotsford we have recently opened our retail shop and cafe in Richmond.
[00:13:28] And then we have two other offices, which is in Dandenong
[00:13:33] Voula Stamatakis: and Penticum. Sounds good. The more, the better for the women to be able to be helped. Thank you so much for joining us today. It was a pleasure to meet all of you and talk about the same visible woman's syndrome, especially how you are living as migrants and really good information has come out of this.
[00:13:53] So hopefully it will be beneficial for many ladies that listen to our podcast. Thank you so much.
[00:14:01] Shivani Bibhuti: Thank you for showing your promoting system. It's really helpful that people are acknowledging the work we do for our sisters and even if your listeners are understanding what we do, we are welcoming as many women who want a sense of belonging in Australia, our doors are always open.
[00:14:21] We have multiple programs, as I mentioned, and people who don't want to join us and who can show their support by any kind of donations, our website is So they can see because we are a not for profit charitable organisation. So any kind of support is
[00:14:38] Voula Stamatakis: really helpful. Thank you so much. Thank you.
[00:14:41] Pamela Mujica: Thank you.
[00:14:42] Carley Bishop: the invisible woman project funded by our social enterprises impact program promotes awareness and actions for women and gender diverse people. To age with dignity, security, and safety. Find out more on justgoldwomen.net or on our socials justgoldwomen