In this episode, we speak with Jeanette Large, CEO of Women’s Property Initiatives, about how the Covid pandemic and subsequent lockdowns affected women’s relationships and homelife, what factors can lead to a woman becoming homeless, and the importance of safe, secure housing for everyone.
[00:00:00] Carley Bishop: This is a just gold podcast.
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[00:00:03] Carley Bishop: Captured on the lands of the peoples of the east Eastern Kulin nation, we pay our respects to their elders past, present and emerging.
[00:00:25] In this episode, we speak with Jeanette Large, CEO of women's property initiatives, about how the COVID pandemic and subsequent lockdowns affected women's relationships and home what factors can lead to a woman becoming homeless and the importance of safe, secure housing for everyone.
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[00:00:45] Jeanette Large: I'm Jeanette large. I'm the CEO of women's property initiatives. The organization develops and provides affordable rental housing for vulnerable women, headed households
[00:00:55] Carley Bishop: we asked Jeanette what has changed in her role since the COVID 19 pandemic.
[00:00:59] Jeanette Large: I think things have just exacerbated really. If we have a look at a whole range of things in relation to COVID women were affected much, much more drastically than men were in relation to losing employment. The fact that they were the ones who were. Staying at home, looking after kids predominantly, there's a lot of information out there in relation to the impact of COVID on women and how they have been adversely impacted.
[00:01:27] The other thing is just generally there seems to be still just an increase, incredible increase in the. amount of housing that is needed for vulnerable women headed households. So we have a look at the Victorian housing register and the number of households that are on that register just continues to grow.
[00:01:48] Despite the fact that the Victorian state government is investing a huge amount of money to deliver affordable housing, social housing, which is wonder. but their 5.3 billion that they've allocated to deliver 12,000 homes is 12,000 homes. We have 50,000 homes on the Victorian housing register, which is like the public housing waiting list or social housing waiting list.
[00:02:13] So that investment has changed. That's terrific for organizations like ours. But the other thing is Victoria I think which is unknown to many people. Was actually the state that invested the least amount in social housing throughout Australia. So per capita, they invested less than any other state in Australia.
[00:02:34] So they have a lot of catch up to do. I think it was a surprise to everyone. Everyone thought that Victoria was performing quite well, that Victoria was ahead of most other states. But if you clearly had a look at the statistics, that wasn't the case, the investment per capita.
[00:02:49] In social housing. So much less than the other states. and investment just generally in relation to social housing, much less than the other states. So they're 5.3 billion. It's fantastic, but it's not gonna get us there. So We are still struggling to address this incredible affordable housing issue, social housing issue, homelessness issue. One thing that came through from the, and it's now the two 16 abs census, which is a bit old, but in Victoria, one thing that was highlighted was the older women's housing. Homelessness increased by 67% from 2011 to 2016 across Australia. It. A bit over 30%, but in Victoria, it was huge. If you look at the homelessness statistics that come through from the Australian health and welfare Institute, the number of women who approach homelessness services is higher than men.
[00:03:47] The number of women who are turned away from the homeless services without any support is higher than men. And we're talking. In Victoria, I think it's about 180 women a day who are turned away from homelessness services compared to, it might be about 90, 90 men or something like that.
[00:04:09] The majority of women who approaching the homelessness services are women. Who've escaped family. It's the highest percentage of families who are approaching homelessness services. So there is absolutely a gender issue in relation to homelessness. And a lot of people wouldn't think that, a lot of people would see.
[00:04:29] Maybe, the older men on the streets, that's the visibility that we often see in relation to homelessness. What they don't see are the women who might be sleeping in their cars. They don't see the women who might be couch surfing, staying at friends, staying at family and overcrowded situations.
[00:04:46] So the homelessness issue for women is huge, often hidden. But if you have a look at the statistics and the women who do turn up to the homelessness service, It is higher in all categories.
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[00:05:01] Carley Bishop: We asked Jeanette what first steps the government could take to solve the issue of women's homelessness.
[00:05:07] Jeanette Large: Investment is huge, but the issue in relation to women So much of it stems from just financial disadvantage from, right throughout their whole lives.
[00:05:17] So we look at women in relation to employment. When they are employed. So many of the women are in your caring type positions. They're in the positions that are lower paid positions. So they're in the health sector, they're in the education sector, age care, childcare, retail. These are all your lower paid jobs.
[00:05:36] And then if you look at it a bit more closely about 40% of those positions are casual or part-time. The, in those sectors about 70% are made up of women. So they are in those lower paid positions. And then the flow on effect from that, from being in the lower paid positions, is that they don't have as much money to put away for savings.
[00:05:58] They don't have as much money to spend on things. In my area housing and they don't have as much money to put away into superannuation. So all of that has a huge impact on women. And then in relation to there, we're always trying to break the ceiling, and just general inequality in relation to women and a statistic that I heard the other day, that absolutely shocked me. And this was from an organization called Jen Vic, who are very much trying to look at equality for women. They said it was gonna be 250 years. If we continue to work at the pace that we're working at before we are gonna get true gender equality.
[00:06:37] And I found that absolutely amazing. I mean, the state government has done their gender equality strategy, but even in some of the consultations in re that I was involved in, in relation to that, I remember them putting up and saying how can we get the work life balance for women?
[00:06:53] And you're thinking, it's the wrong question? How can we get the work life? For the family, we have to make sure that men are involved in childcare, that the men contribute as much to the household as the women. It was just making that assumption. The woman will look after the children. The women will look after the household.
[00:07:11] So there's a whole lot of things that we still need to really be whole range of education. So I suppose what would I do if in government? Yes, I'd be having a lot of education programs, right from the beginning. I think it's happening a bit that the state government Victorian state government has done their Royal commission into family violence, which is excellent.
[00:07:33] And they have rolled out a lot of things, but it's still not, we are still not preventing the issue. We're addressing it to, to some extent was we're not preventing it. And did COVID. Exacerbate the whole family violence issue. The police were getting more reports than ever.
[00:07:51] And at one stage, which I thought was even more frightening was our statewide family violence service was actually getting less reports. And that was because the perpetrator was in the house with them and they didn't have the opportunity to be making the phone. That they might have made otherwise to get the safe housing that they needed.
[00:08:12] But the reports to police were just escalating sky high as far as the family violence. So it was getting to that stage. Now, the family violence service the safe step services, every time they tell me their figures of how many women they're housing each night, it just blows my mind.
[00:08:29] It's incredible.
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[00:08:31] Carley Bishop: We asked Janette how the COVID lockdowns affected family relationships.
[00:08:36] Jeanette Large: I think some relationships, certainly not all relationships you hear of somewhere.
[00:08:40] They loved it. I've actually heard some men going, saying. How wonderful it was to be home and spending more time with their children and experiencing a life that they actually hadn't experienced. And it was because they were always going out to work and they really enjoyed it. And so it's not everyone out there, absolutely. It's not, but for those who want that power control. Yep. And it was they were exercising that within their house when they were locked up.
[00:09:04] For younger women it can be family issues that can result in at leading to to homelessness, if there's issues with their parents or the siblings or so forth for Older women. Absolutely. It can be a health issue. It can be a partner passing away. It can be the loss of a job.
[00:09:21] So all of those things can contribute to someone who has managed to look after themselves, their whole life, when we're talking about older women for their whole lives and suddenly there's an event in their life, which means that income that they were used to having come in is no longer there for many issues that I.
[00:09:39] Mentioned before they may not have that savings. They may not have that superannuation. They may have still had a mortgage that, if a partner passed away that they were both contributing to that one income can't sustain that mortgage. Yeah. So there's many aspects of why
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[00:09:57] Jeanette Large: Through the research that we undertook, which was quite some time ago as I said, we identified a group of women who really were in need of a different sort of housing solution. And the importance of that was really raising it out in the community. And I think, I really do believe that there's many more people out there now in society who do recognize that this is a group of women who.
[00:10:22] Their housing needs need to be addressed and that there needs to be solutions out there to address this. That there can be solutions out there to address that if we work together in some way. For example, I know that Social Ventures Australia are now looking at establishing a women's fund and that will be focusing on older women and the group of women that I was referring to as the middle women so that they might be able to access a fund that they can put towards their housing. So there, through the research that we've done, and we have highlighted it, we've also worked on a national basis with, there was a, working group on older women's housing for a while, and we developed a report called Retiring into Poverty because that's basically what's happening for many women and even some women who might not think they're retiring into poverty because they have got some money behind them, will be moving into poverty soon if they have to rely on the private rental market. So I think the issue has absolutely become more well known.
[00:11:29] I think what we have to do is now. show them, tell people that there are solutions, there are innovations out there. These innovations and solutions, however, still need to be funded. So if I go to the Minister of Housing and put forward a preventative solution, and I'm told that all they're focusing on is social housing, it's really not a good enough answer as far as I'm concerned, because.
[00:11:55] What we're putting to them is this is preventative. This is stopping you having to spend as much on social housing, further down the track. So yes there are a lot of people, which is terrific looking at it. Some of the good banks such as the Bendigo Bank and the Bank Australia are really looking at solutions.
[00:12:11] There's some private investors, there's some excellent what's referred to as social impact investors who are seriously looking at this. And I know Social Ventures Australia, for example, will be trying to work with those social impact investors. So I'm feeling reasonably optimistic, but I'm also feeling that our first research was back in 2013.
[00:12:32] I'm talking eight years down the track now that we have been really. Trying to get this message out there, getting, one pilot off the ground to demonstrate what can be done. We need to be moving, as as quickly as we can because the women that we're talking about at the moment are very much your baby boomer women.
[00:12:54] It's increasing and increasing as they're moving in. They're the women who their employees didn't have to contribute to superannuation. They're the women who really. Absolutely took time outta the workforce and worked parttime to care for children. So I think we're still just seeing the tip of the iceberg as far as what we're gonna see in the future.
[00:13:13] So we need to get these solutions out there.
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[00:13:17] Jeanette Large: I've been involved in housing probably ever since I left university, and that was first through working with young people through an employment organization and realizing at, even at that early stage how important housing was, and particularly for young people at that time.
[00:13:34] Very early on within that position there was a young woman who actually rang me on a Saturday evening because at that stage we didn't have youth refuges or women's refuges who was being abused by her partner. And I went and picked her up and brought her home and she stayed with me for some time, which you wouldn't necessarily do now you have boundaries,
[00:13:54] But anyway, . So from a very young age, The whole idea of the importance of safe, secure, and affordable housing was drummed into me. I then actually worked at a youth refuge and as a youth housing worker, For many years, I then I moved into other positions, but always no matter where I was, because I worked with government for a while, I worked at local government as well.
[00:14:18] I was always involved in some way in housing organizations. In those days, there were original housing councils, their emergency accommodation services as on management committees and so forth. And then I became the CEO of women's homelessness service. And I actually worked there for nine. And when this, the opportunity for this position came up with women's property initiatives, which was developing long term housing.
[00:14:42] I was just delighted at the prospect of that because despite the organization I was working for, being a women's homelessness organization, being an excellent service and providing wonderful support to the women. The women were in transitional housing. The women, you would say to them, maybe you could go out.
[00:15:01] Part-time work. Go back to study linking with your child's school council, something like that. And the response to the, to me was often, but I don't know how long I'm gonna be here. The difference that I see when we house the women in long term, safe, secure, and affordable housing, that they know it's gonna be their home for as long as they need it to be their home.
[00:15:26] Massive. So they get on with their lives like you wouldn't believe. They really, we talk about new beginnings. We talk about a different and better future. And it's absolutely true for the children and for the women. The children perform better at school. We have children in the families that we've been, the women's families that we've been housing who have gone to tertiary study, who've gone to university.
[00:15:48] We have the women who have got part-time work, gone back to study themselves. It's a real launching plan that's secure, safe, affordable, long term rental housing. And so having worked for the homelessness service, getting into this position was just fantastic to be able to develop that housing. And yes, we don't deliver nearly enough of it, but when we do deliver it and we see the.
[00:16:14] For the women that were housing it maintains your oh my hope, , and passion to keep working on it.
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[00:16:22] Carley Bishop: We asked Jeanette, what advice would she give a younger woman?
[00:16:26] Jeanette Large: So I love a poster that Victorian Women's Trust has that says money, power, freedom. And it's so true that if young women can be educated from very early on, the importance of. Having a, well paid job, if that's possible. Often that means education prior to being able to get that well paid job.
[00:16:46] And some of the research that I've only seen recently about the difference that education can mean to the level of income that you'll get in the position that you hold. Education's so important. Employment is so important, making sure that you're not too afraid to be. Out there negotiating the salary that you think you warrant for the position that you hold.
[00:17:11] Often women still hold back in relation to that. And it, they say that so much compared to men, that men are prepared to go up and negotiate and get their salary up. But women are still very reluctant to do that, that they do look very closely at how they can invest their money, for young women.
[00:17:30] Personally, I think this is a whole nother topic, I think Australia as far as their whole housing system, compared to other countries we base it on home ownership. It doesn't have to be home ownership, it has to be good quality, safe, secure, long term housing, but that can be provided through rental housing.
[00:17:48] There are systems of that can be provided not through the private rental market that we have in. But that can be provided in other ways. It doesn't have to be home ownership. Home ownership or housing in Australia has really been so much an investment product instead of a home , which is what it should be.
[00:18:05] Carley Bishop: And what advice would she give an older woman who is becoming, or has already become invisible?
[00:18:11] Jeanette Large: That advice would be that she needs to approach a service approach an organization out there that may be able to assist her.
[00:18:22] So what I heard Katherine saying before about there's older women who have never had. A, approach, a welfare service or any other assistance in their life. And they're not familiar with it, but they need to, talk to friends, talk to people, seek out assistance that's, out there.
[00:18:41] There's a few organizations who have really been trying to make sure that they can actually. Access these women and assist these women to say there are alternatives. There are different ways that they can be assisted. That they don't have to think of it as being a failure in any way. Maybe society's failed them in some way, but they haven't failed.
[00:19:05] They really need to be gently, I think, informed that there are options out there for. , stay visible.
[00:19:11] Carley Bishop: The invisible woman project funded by our social enterprises impact program promotes awareness and actions for women and gender diverse people. To age with dignity, security, and safety. Find out more on justgoldwomen.net or on our socials @justgoldwomen.
[00:19:30] Kyriakos Gold: This was a Just Gold Podcast. Find out more about our social enterprise at justgold.net