In this episode, we speak with lawyer Mary Mitrakas about her experience with the invisibility syndrome throughout her career and the barriers women face when seeking employment.
The invisible woman project funded by our social enterprise's impact program promotes awareness and actions for women and gender-diverse people. To age with dignity, security, and safety. Find out more on justgoldwomen.net or on our socials @justgoldwomen.
Hosted by Voula Stamatakis
Edited and produced by Carley Bishop
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[00:00:00] Carley Bishop: This is a just gold podcast.
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[00:00:03] Carley Bishop: Captured on the lands of the peoples of the east Eastern Kulin nation. We pay our respects to their elders past, present and emerging.
[00:00:25] in this episode of The Invisible Woman Podcast, we speak with lawyer Mary Mitrakas on her experience with the invisibility syndrome through her career and the barriers women face when seeking employment.
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[00:00:42] Voula Stamatakis: So today we have with us Mary . who is a lawyer. And I want to ask Mary, are women becoming invisible as they ate?
[00:00:52] Voula Stamatakis: What is your opinion?
[00:00:53] Mary Mitrakas: I think there is a sense of as you age, some women feel forced to retire. They feel that they are. Becoming invisible and pushed to the periphery of their industries. Quite often it is that employers are looking for younger people. Someone who they perceive has a different level of energy and so forth.
[00:01:16] So these prejudices that come into play, give these women a setback in continuing to grow in their careers. Often there's women that, other women that have left their careers early and have gone off to raise their children. And then they want to get back into some sort of gainful employment and they're met with age discrimination.
[00:01:40] I read in one of the law institute journals of some antidotal evidence of. Applying for a job who is, who was in the 50 plus range and being told, oh, the employer's looking for someone younger who hasn't developed bad habits. So again, assumptions are made about people in that age bracket and in particular women.
[00:02:02] I also read a quote by Jennifer Aniston, who's 53, and she is referring to society's expiration date on women. And to quote, she says it's like a carton of milk with an expiration date. There is an expectation also for women of the 50 plus range to try to make efforts to look more youthful in order to be able to be more employable, for example, dying their hair, ironing out their wrinkles, et cetera.
[00:02:30] And it shouldn't be the case. It should be the case that their maturity and wisdom is valued regardless of their age. And if you compare this to men who are in their middle aged and they're seen to be at the pinnacle of their careers, and often they've achieved these career goals because of the women that have been behind them and keeping the house fires burning and raising the children, et cetera.
[00:02:54] And that's empowered them and freed them up to pursue their goals and. Yeah. As we know that one in three marriages fail, a woman will find herself after raising children to be to encounter perhaps a separation and divorce, and that again puts her on the back burner because of course, she then has to reinvent herself after spending time supporting a husband in his career paths, raising the children.
[00:03:24] And she, her skills have blagged. So it'd be wonderful to have perhaps some sort of network or program where employers who are willing
[00:03:35] to,
[00:03:36] Give these women the opportunity can highlight that and that job seekers can then perhaps tap into this and be given a bit of a chance to enter the workforce, to hone their skills once.
[00:03:51] Voula Stamatakis: So what would you say are the barriers maybe as technology is progressing and it's rapidly progressing? Maybe this could be the case.
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[00:04:01] Mary Mitrakas: Barriers, of course would be the technology, but also confidence is a big one. Confidence to actually put yourself out there and back yourself and promote yourself often.
[00:04:11] Someone to give you that encouragement. Perhaps even do a mock interview with you a couple of times to give you that empowerment to feel that you are somehow prepared. I know of women who've been told to look more youthful in the interviews if they can and wear more hip clothes, et cetera.
[00:04:31] Yes, because these are the things that employers hone in on. Of course it shouldn't be the case, but it is, you look at billboards and it's all about prettiness and youthfulness, and this is what society values these days. Unfortunately. But I don't think that should keep women more mature women.
[00:04:53] From trying to have a go. However, I am the first to acknowledge that it is not an easy task to reenter the workforce. After you've defined yourself perhaps through your husband, partner, children, and then they don't no longer, you need you for whatever reason, and you find yourself having to become employable again.
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[00:05:18] We asked Mary if she has met other invisible women during her.
[00:05:23] Mary Mitrakas: When I entered the profession in 1983, there were no women judges on the county court. I was in the minority as a female practitioner.
[00:05:34] I think the first female judge to appointed to the counter court was Lynette Schon, and that was 1985. She was the second QC, female QC to ever become one. So it was, women were invisible in my profession back then, and you were an exception rather than the norm. Now today, there are more females undertaking law and the prac law.
[00:05:59] And entering the profession. So things are changing. The male practitioners are still the ones who are getting the more senior positions, but that is also changing in my profession. Women have started to network as a cohort in the legal profession and are learning to mentor each other, support one another and they understand each other's needs.
[00:06:23] Unfortunately the law, and depending on what area you practice, and particularly litigation, is so intense that it is very difficult to raise a family and run litigation properly. However, it's something that needs to be addressed because of course women need to also bear children and raise families, and there has to be a balance in life.
[00:06:45] You don't have only one role. Exactly. Two roles, yes. And so many others. Okay.
[00:06:50] Voula Stamatakis: What would you advise to a woman to stay visible and what to do?
[00:06:54] Mary Mitrakas: I think that it is important to network with other women. I think it is important to keep your skills if you can, even when you're out of the workforce, up to speed.
[00:07:04] If it, if at all possible, I, during some professional development talking to women who continue in the profession, even conversations and chats to see what's happening. Keep up your technology. Or go and do a refresher course,
[00:07:18] Voula Stamatakis: whatever you can to,
[00:07:19] Mary Mitrakas: Be able to meet the demands of a very evolving landscape of employment.
[00:07:27] Voula Stamatakis: Thank you very much, Mrs. Misra.
[00:07:29] Carley Bishop: Thanks, The invisible woman project funded by our social enterprises impact program promotes awareness and actions for women and gender diverse people. To age with dignity, security, and safety. Find out more on justgoldwomen.net or on our socials justgoldwomen