In this episode of The Invisible Woman Podcast, we speak with Ruth Russell in Adelaide. Ruth shares her stories from her time working as a public servant in the 80's, how she has kept herself busy in retirement and how she feels about the standard to which women are held in public life.
The invisible woman project funded by our social enterprise's impact program promotes awareness and actions for women and gender-diverse people. To age with dignity, security, and safety. Find out more on justgoldwomen.net or on our socials @justgoldwomen.
Hosted by Voula Stamatakis
Edited and produced by Carley Bishop
This is a Just Gold podcast.
[00:00:00] Carley Bishop: This is a just gold podcast.
[00:00:02] Carley Bishop: recorded on the lens of the Kaurna people of the Adelaide planes. We pay our respects to their elders. Past, present, and emerging.
[00:00:28] In this episode of the Invisible Woman Podcast, we speak to Ruth Russell.
[00:00:32] Ruth speaks to us about her career as a public servant and about how she has noticed a shift in the way that women support each.
[00:00:39] Here's Ruth.
[00:00:42] Ruth Russell: I'm Ruth Russell. I'm 79 years old but I always say 79 years young because I want the emphasis not on the numbers, but on my attitude.
[00:00:54] I think this is an important topic that hasn't really been widely understood or discussed in society. I have been of the privileged generation. I got free university education, I've got permanent public servant jobs. I've had an absolutely wonderful career.
[00:01:13] I got free or very cheap childcare services. When I went to university, of course, that was in the Go Whitlam era. And now I've seen women, young women today really struggling. They've got so many higher university debts. Everything's higher, childcare fees, just everything Just living is harder and also a lot of women don't have permanent jobs anymore.
[00:01:41] Carley Bishop: We asked Ruth Russell how she feels about the term invisible woman syndrome.
[00:01:46] Ruth Russell: Actually, I thought that was a very apt description for a lot of women. I can be in a shop waiting to be served, and a younger person comes in and it's as though I don't exist.
[00:01:58] They'll go and immediately, and especially if it's a younger. Woman. Sometimes they'll go in and they'll just go in immediately and I have to say, Excuse me, did you see me waiting here? But that happens more often than I'd like to admit.
[00:02:12] It's unc. It's unconscious by the people who do it, which is why I speak out to try and raise their awareness that they're doing it. But it could be an older man, it could be a younger man, it could be a younger woman. It could even be an older woman. Somehow we've just seemed to have devalued. Older women.
[00:02:34] Carley Bishop: We asked Ruth when she started noticing she was becoming invisible.
[00:02:38] Ruth Russell: What really Set the barrier for me for really understanding was this, I was, for 20 years, very honored and respected public servant in South Australia, developing a lot of services for people with disabilities, women, children, aged care, all sorts of things.
[00:02:59] And I was offered early retirement in the 1970's. And when I retired I thought, Oh, I'll just go and get another job. But as soon as I went to apply for jobs or anything. I'd write my application, I'd always get an interview on my written application, and then I'd walk in. They'd say, Yes, come for an interview.
[00:03:20] I'd walk in, I'd be 60 and they'd be maybe 40 or something bright young things, and they'd look at me and think, Oh, we don't want an old person working with us. And he just say no, we're not interested. No, you didn't get the job. And I realized that was. Consistent. So in the end, I just gave up.
[00:03:39] I just, I thought I don't need the money. Why am I working? I just thought I had a lot to offer society and my skills would be really valued far above a novice young person who had never nowhere near the life experience or connections that I had.
[00:03:55] Carley Bishop: We asked Ruth how she spends her time in retirement.
[00:03:58] Ruth Russell: I have never retired doing nothing. I am a very active person in the Women's Peace Movement. I was the national. We don't call them chairperson, but I was the national president of the Women's International League for peace and Freedom.
[00:04:16] , which was set up by the suffragists in Victoria around the world in 1915. So we worked to try and promote peace between nations at all levels of society. So that's one of the jobs I still hold and I'm still active in at the. as part of my peace activism, I spoke at the biggest rally they've ever had here in Adelaide when there was gonna be a war in Iraq, and I actually decided that the next day I flew out to go to Iraq to represent all the Australians who didn't believe we should go to war.
[00:04:54] And I stayed all through the bombing as a human. To represent to the world that there were Australian citizens who believed Australian government should not be involved in this. It was an amazing experience. There were 10 Australians went.
[00:05:12] A journalist, Donna Mulheim from Sydney, myself from Adelaide. A doctor from Melbourne. A priest and a minister, and a few other people, 10 of us in all. And what we did was so good for the peace move. Because all I was there before they'd even decided to invade and we were able to get world attention to say that the people of Australia, not our government, the people of Australia, do not want Australian involvement in this war.
[00:05:49] Ruth Russell: I actually. In 2003 to replace Natasha Stott Despoja, who was a senator for the Australian Democrats, unfortunately, sarah Hanson Young was standing at the same time for the greens, and what irked me was we'd be go and give a talk and we'd both talk about all the issues.
[00:06:09] And at the end, Sarah always got up and she'd say, Vote for a young woman. And I just found that so demeaning. But what can you do? She thought that advantaged her against me. Nothing about our policies or what we believed in, or the energy and integrity we would break through the job. It was more about, I'm young and she's old.
[00:06:34] There's a lot of opportunities now for women over 50 to be valued, to have their experiences acknowledged and for them to be part of the conversation about how do we go forward as a more diverse and inclusive society.
[00:06:53] We don't want to be privileged. We just want to be. Given our own integrity and our own value and our experience. When you are older, you've got a lot of experience to offer and a lot of good ideas. You've seen a lot of changes over time and you know what's worked and what hasn't especially childcare.
[00:07:15] When I went to university, I got free childcare in the Go Whitlam time, and now women who go to work are struggling with these huge childcare fees. There have been a lot of changes that have really set women back.
[00:07:29] Carley Bishop: We asked Ruth, what are some steps she thinks the government could take so that older women could be more active in public life?
[00:07:36] Ruth Russell: I think we've become invisible and we are not seen as revered elder. As they do in some other societies, the emphasis is on a beautiful young woman. You've gotta be young and pretty to be a presenter.
[00:07:51] There's a real focus on image rather than substance, and that really cuts out women. I think they all want to be young and pretty and gorgeous and flutter your eyelids, and you think that's not what it's all about. It's about integrity and dealing with whatever the issue is of the day.
[00:08:10] And older people have got such long experiences and they've lived through hard times and good times, and they've got a lot to offer. They've been written out.
[00:08:21] I'm saddened that even a lot of younger women have now joined the put downs of older women and there's no, there's not the solidarity that you would expect anymore.
[00:08:35] Everyone's individualized. You're not a group,
[00:08:37] you know,
[00:08:37] there's no group solidarity anymore. It's all if you wanna get on in life, you just gotta focus on pushing yourself forward. And that sort of, it's unconscious, but it's an attitude that just denies the agency of other people.
[00:08:54] They wouldn't realize that they're doing. Because it's just in the rush. Everybody's gotta get ahead and it's up to you. You've gotta push yourself all the time, promote yourself, have a good image, do all these things to get ahead. Whereas in the old days in earlier times, it would be about your experience, your knowledge, your integrity.
[00:09:16] You would be looked at deeper than. Having to push yourself forward with image and that sort of thing.
[00:09:23] Carley Bishop: We asked Ruth when she thinks the visibility starts happening to women and what needs to be done to stop this from happening.
[00:09:30] Ruth Russell: It's usually when you turn over 30 to mid thirties.
[00:09:34] You're no longer the young and beautiful 40. Seen as over the hill. Yeah.
[00:09:40] When you challenge the young people and say, Didn't you see me sitting there? Or something like that. It's say quite innocently
[00:09:46] Oh, no. No.
[00:09:48] Because society has changed where everybody has to promote themselves. They have to have a good image. You have to have a wonderful cv. You've gotta have all these tricks and gimmicks to put yourself above. It's quite a competitive environment now. It's not solidarity or, Hey, look, how can I help you?
[00:10:09] Or something like that. It's about, it's up to you. Individualism. The cult of individualism has taken away the collective respect and camaraderie. I think of a lot of people. It's up to you to get a job. No one else is gonna help you. You've gotta do it. You've gotta do everything yourself. You. And I can understand if you, if you are isolated if you by yourself, you haven't got a collective group of people to change things, which is what's so exciting about the new Teal group.
[00:10:39] They've just decided, no, we are gonna band together and we are gonna speak up for what would the old values really were.
[00:10:46] Carley Bishop: We asked Ruth if she thinks women are held to a higher standard than men when it comes to being successful in their careers or in politics.
[00:10:54] Ruth Russell: I think it's harder for women. They have to be very, Astute and aware of their environments and how they conduct themselves.
[00:11:04] And it's been sad to hear about all that you know, sexual activity and everything in parliament and that is just sad that it got to that grubby level. We would expect people who are in higher places. Or in society to conduct themselves in a lot more disciplined manner and show some moral strength
[00:11:27] Carley Bishop: we asked Ruth what it was like working as a public servant in the eighties.
[00:11:31] Ruth Russell: Yes, it was wonderful. I was the union rep, the public service union rep. We had Jan McMan, who was a wonderful union president. We had. Both male and female directors of our department, and they were totally respectful.
[00:11:50] Everyone worked together with a real commitment to do the best job we could. There wasn't any divisiveness then, but I think there is now. I just hope people can be aware of the invisibility of women and the loss to society when you don't value the experiences and the knowledge that people have gained over time.
[00:12:13] Stay visible, and always speak out.
[00:12:17] Carley Bishop: The invisible woman project funded by our social enterprises impact program promotes awareness and actions for women and gender diverse people. To age with dignity, security, and safety. Find out more on justgoldwomen.net or on our socials @justgoldwomen