In this episode of the Invisible Woman Podcast, we catch up with some members of the Just Gold team, Grace Packer, Angela Kalliakoudis, and me, Carley Bishop, to find out what we’ve learnt about the invisibility syndrome, and how it affects us and our loved ones.
The invisible woman project funded by our social enterprise's impact program promotes awareness and actions for women and gender-diverse people. To age with dignity, security, and safety. Find out more on justgoldwomen.net or on our socials @justgoldwomen.
Hosted by Voula Stamatakis
Edited and produced by Carley Bishop
This is a Just Gold podcast.
[00:00:00] Carley Bishop: This is a just gold podcast.
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[00:00:03] Carley Bishop: Captured on the lands of the peoples of the east Eastern Kulin nation. We pay our respects to their elders past, present and emerging.
[00:00:25] In this episode of The Invisible Woman Podcast, we catch up with some members of the just Gold Team, grace Packer, Angela Kalia Cudas, and me Carley Bishop, to find out what we've learned about the invisibility syndrome and how it affects us and our loved ones.
[00:00:42] We were asked if we'd ever thought about the invisibility syndrome before working on the Invisible Woman Project at Just Gold.
[00:00:49] Grace Packer: No, I've, I guess I would've very far in the background of my mind, understood the vulnerability of women as they aged.
[00:00:58] but I'm thinking about it, but not about myself, more about my mom or about other women in my life. I don't think it's something that's sunk in as like a reality for me.
[00:01:07] Angela Kalliakoudis: I think I was always aware of it. I just don't, I hadn't articulated it. I hadn't given it a label.
[00:01:14] It wasn't a conversation, but I think it's something that I had definitely felt or was aware of. I suppose, I understood very early on to just make noise, to just keep banging away at it and just make them hear you. that didn't always work out well, , it wasn't always received well. It's probably better received now.
[00:01:34] It's more understood now. It's more accepted now. But you can imagine 20, 30, 40 years ago, it was not acceptable. It wasn't expected. It was it probably caused me more grief.
[00:01:45] Carley Bishop: I think there's a lot I wouldn't have considered especially talking about women becoming homeless simply because they've suffered from grief. Not even just losing that income, but like they've gone into shock because someone's passed away and that's led to them losing their job and just the snowball effect of that.
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[00:02:04] Carley Bishop: We were asked what we've learned now about invisibility for women and how it has affected us personally.
[00:02:10] Grace Packer: The homelessness statistic was definitely one that shocked me when I first started at Just Gold
[00:02:16] Angela Kalliakoudis: because of the choices that I had made, I chose to have my children and I wanted to raise them, and I wanted to take some time out and get off the treadmill and raise my kids.
[00:02:24] I didn't wanna outsource that. And as a result, that certainly changed the path that I was on. Absolutely. Not just from a career and visibility point of view, but a financial standpoint as well. Like I, I took a real big hit for that. But I don't, there's no regrets for that. And it was definitely my choice.
[00:02:42] I made the choice, understanding that it was a choice and the consequences of that. It does. I'm not saying it's okay. I'm not saying that. I just under, I understand it. I'm not condoning it. It's about exiting the workforce. It's about getting off the ladder. Whatever causes you to get off that ladder will impact you and it will impact your career.
[00:03:00] It will impact your path, it will impact your trajectory. It's just the reality. And some women get off that ladder, consciously, and it's not always because of motherhood. It's a lot of reasons why women step off that ladder and we should be doing things to encourage women to stay on it. But the ladder needs to look different.
[00:03:17] It needs to accommodate not just diversity in men, women, diversity in life. Choices like diversity in, I wanna proceed in my career or down this path, but it needs to allow me to do me to be me, and I can still contribute.
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[00:03:33] Carley Bishop: We were asked what we would say to our mothers, now that we know what we know,
[00:03:37] I'm pretty open with my mum, so it's probably something I would talk to her about. It'd be interesting just to ask her if she has felt invisible because of her age and her gender.
[00:03:47] Grace Packer: I actually did mention it to my mom when I first started working on the project.
[00:03:50] I was like, oh mom, I'm working on this. And she just very bluntly went, yeah, I know I'm invisible. And I have spoken to family members before and I do know that there are some women in my life that don't have a lot of superannuation from being self-employed or from taking time off raising children. So it's definitely something that's around me and something that does feel personal without it being me.
[00:04:12] Angela Kalliakoudis: She's 84 my mother is the most visible woman you will ever know. And didn't go to university and never had a job of any note. . But in her world that she's established, she's still smack bang in the middle of it. And she's kept herself there and she's still screaming
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[00:04:36] Carley Bishop: We were asked what advice we would give our younger selves or to other women.
[00:04:40] I think I would tell myself to stop trying to please everybody and figure out what I want for myself.
[00:04:45] Grace Packer: Don't let your boss mess you. Read contracts, understand your rights. Yeah, know what you're worth.
[00:04:52] Angela Kalliakoudis: I just wanna say to women, do what you have to do. Scream louder, keep screaming. Refuse to be invisible. And that should start very young. We shouldn't wait to be 50 or 60 or 70 to be screaming and saying, I'm invisible.
[00:05:05] I think these are things that need to be, that the conversation needs to start really, really young, with really young girls, you don't need permission. You know, you don't need someone to say, okay, just be you. Do you do what you have to do? Independence, financial independence, social independence. Things happen in life.
[00:05:23] You're gonna get divorced, you're gonna get your heart broken. You're going to lose money. You're going to make money, you're gonna have a job. You're going to lose your job. You may have kids, you may not, but just be you and do you and be strong and just keep at it. And there's no right and there's no wrong.
[00:05:38] And it may not always end well, but just get back up and just keep. and just keep screaming and just stay visible. We shouldn't be depending or relying or expecting someone else to do it for us as a collective or as an individual. Get up and do it. And that's not just for women, that's for every individual.
[00:06:01] Have some autonomy, own it, just do it.
[00:06:04] Stay visible.
[00:06:05] Grace Packer: stay visible.
[00:06:07] Carley Bishop: Stay visible.
[00:06:08] The invisible woman project funded by our social enterprises impact program promotes awareness and actions for women and gender diverse people. To age with dignity, security, and safety. Find out more on justgoldwomen.net or on our socials justgoldwomen